Curse

Free Runner · Jul 21, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I have no source. I actually only came across the early Tannek pieces through reading the Utopia summary on the wiki. There they described them as piglike and after actually looking at the pieces i also agree on that (unless of course Anet have decided to create their own idea of insects being fleshy, armor wearing hunchbacks with snouts) .

The quote you provided sounds like the person was mixing up the two concepts - Tannek that are demonic beings in Eye of the North? or he was he actually talking about the current Destroyers there?

Konig Des Todes · Jul 21, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by komma

this god must somehow be linked to the eotn dungeon aswell.

If you read some of the replies, you would notice someone brought that up, and that I answered how I do not believe Arachnia is related to Arachni, at least directly. I believe it is simply a naming method, both lore-wise and programming wise.

@ Free Runner: The quote I provided was a caption for the picture that you provided, and that picture being the earliest known concept of the Tannek.

As for your wiki's description. I personally disagree with it. I see no snout, bigs can easily be hunchback and their exoskeleton would be the armor. And of course, insects are fleshy many times. It seems to me that they were meant to be "demonic bugs" having the whole fiery concept behind them.

Not to mention, in that picture, the smoke on the back resembles wings (bat-like wings it seems). I don't think pigs have wings

.

Free Runner · Jul 21, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I dont think beings made of rock and lava can walk about and aim to destroy the world. But Tyria is a fantasy world - and pigs with wings make sense in Tyria.

Also - piglike not actual pigs. And that is not the earliest piece because as i said in my original post its both ideas put together.

To make it simple - Piglike Soldiers of Utopia -> Hybrid Creature which appears to be both the current Destroyer and the old concept -> Current Destroyers.

Now on that picture the Tannek appear to have snouts, wear armor and walk hunchback. These do not have that insect appearence and appear more soldier like than the current Destroyers.

So i get back to what i said: the original Tannek were not so insectlike therefore i doubt they were to have any relation to Arachnia.

Now actually on to the topic: I'm pretty sure Arachni had nothing to do with Arachnia. I have been through the dungeon alot of times and no hints are ever made at it being more than a big spider who appears to be pissing off the local Asura due to it being in a area filled with energy. The name was probably just based on "Arachnid" which is pretty much what they are.

Gmr Leon · Jul 21, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

There could have been more gods that were spiders before the other gods, just like I said above, Dhuum seems to, through observation of his followers, be insectoid as well.

...That's been a big theory for quite a long time now. By long time, I mean months prior to your current post. I was hoping you would have read up on Dhuum at least a bit before making this whole hypothesis. Anyway, now you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

especially as the only reference to Arachnia is in the Rift.

This is just a personal pet peeve, but...MISTS. The Realm of Torment, Underworld, Fissure of Woes, all are located in the Mists. However, they can be accessed from the center of the Mists, the Rift. And at the center of the Rift, is the Hall of Heroes.

Sorry, just have to get that out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel the Assassin

It is also possible, with the "job of the god" that passes on, was that Abaddon gained two concepts from the past, as seeing how he had the strength of two gods, I always figured he killed and absorbed the power of two different gods, Arachnia being one of them.

I always took that bit on Abaddon differently. He defeated two of the Five Gods being worshiped in the present, but then they got back up with the other three Gods and, as a whole, they defeated Abaddon.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 22, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

...That's been a big theory for quite a long time now. By long time, I mean months prior to your current post. I was hoping you would have read up on Dhuum at least a bit before making this whole hypothesis. Anyway, now you know.

I actually have read up on Dhuum a looong time ago before this thread. And I was well aware of that idea and I even said so multiple times... "according to observations" does not mean by me but others.

Quote:

This is just a personal pet peeve, but...MISTS. The Realm of Torment, Underworld, Fissure of Woes, all are located in the Mists. However, they can be accessed from the center of the Mists, the Rift. And at the center of the Rift, is the Hall of Heroes.

Sorry, just have to get that out there.

I still always think of the Realm of the Gods being within the Rift, just as the Hall of Heroes is. If it is proven that isn't the case... my bad.

Quote:

I always took that bit on Abaddon differently. He defeated two of the Five Gods being worshiped in the present, but then they got back up with the other three Gods and, as a whole, they defeated Abaddon.

I never said he beat two of the current gods, as it never says he did, it says he COULD, as mentioned in a old thread, think it was Free Runner who constantly pointed that out. What I meant, was that Abaddon had the strength of two gods, and therefore is possible that he killed two gods in the past, not the True Gods (I always think the Great Dwarf and Arachnia, probably Arachnia being the first to be beaten). But that is a hypothesis for another topic.

And @ Free Runner... Where did you get that picture? Never seen it before, and I'm fairly sure I went through at least a majority of the concept art of the GW1 games, including Utopia.

Dresden · Jul 22, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but spiders are arachnids, not insects. Also, the Destroyers aren't demons.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 22, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dresden

I hate to burst everyone's bubble

Listening...

Quote:

but spiders are arachnids, not insects.

But Arachnids are similar to insects, which is where I was coming from. Not to mention that I, and a few others, have stated that Arachnid is most likely where the name Arachni *from the dungeon* and Arachnia came from.

Quote:

Also, the Destroyers aren't demons.

Not how they are now, at least game-mechanic wise, but they were demonic in the creation of them.

Aside from the troll... I found something just now in Nightfallen Jahai which I found really interesting. A spider-shaped... creature, I suppose. It's in the south west corner of Nightfallen Jahai. Pictures added to first post.

draxynnic · Jul 22, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I have no source. I actually only came across the early Tannek pieces through reading the Utopia summary on the wiki. There they described them as piglike and after actually looking at the pieces i also agree on that (unless of course Anet have decided to create their own idea of insects being fleshy, armor wearing hunchbacks with snouts) .

The quote you provided sounds like the person was mixing up the two concepts - Tannek that are demonic beings in Eye of the North? or he was he actually talking about the current Destroyers there?

They're described as piglike in the magazine that had the Destroyer mini code. However, it's unclear at what point the Tannek became the Destroyers - it's possible that they were given the arthropod appearance in anticipation of being connected to Arachnia or Dhuum for Chapter 4 and were reconcepted when they shifted the storyline focus to the buildup for GW2.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that the storyline for GW2 is what was planned to be done for the second trilogy all along, with the Great Destroyer having been planned as the opponent for Chapter 4 all along and the Ancient Dragons waking up just that much earlier.

And if people want to be precise, spiders and insects are both arthropods, and spiders are certainly insect-like in a number of ways. Nitpicking scientific terms doesn't really help the discussion, though - in fact, Guild Wars treats spiders as insects in the game mechanics (spiders trigger insect hunt bounties, for instance).

Dresden · Jul 22, 2008, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

But Arachnids are similar to insects, which is where I was coming from.

Spiders are actually very dissimilar to insects. Insects have six legs and three major body sections (a head, thorax, and abdomen) whereas spiders have eight legs and two major body sections (a head and abdomen).

Bowstring Badass · Jul 22, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dresden

Spiders are actually very dissimilar to insects. Insects have six legs and three major body sections (a head, thorax, and abdomen) whereas spiders have eight legs and two major body sections (a head and abdomen).

People hate bugs and arachnids? Anyway who cares either way they are squished under my shoes. But Azazel might have found the arachnophobia reference?

draxynnic · Jul 22, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dresden

Spiders are actually very dissimilar to insects. Insects have six legs and three major body sections (a head, thorax, and abdomen) whereas spiders have eight legs and two major body sections (a head and abdomen).

They're still much more closely related, and similar to, each other than, say, either are to any form of vertebrate. I can appreciate the urge to be scientifically accurate (I'm one myself, admittedly in physics rather than biology) but the game calls them all insects.

"Bugs", of course, would probably be a good compromise.

natmarie21 · Aug 13, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

wow, alot to read. i've never really heard of arachnia before, but i was wondering, is it possible that arachnia was abaddons mum? abaddon has spider like claws below his head, and he does have a number of eyes suggesting insect origin. (abaddons dad could have been some weird octopus thing which gave him the tenticles)
abaddon could have inherited the evil gene from arachnia, been her student, and he could have killed her, possibly absorbing her power which links into the web idea. we can assume that he 'killed his children' so he's obviously ruthless and aggressive. the realm of torment was prob arachnias domain + if/when abbadon killed her he not only took over her power, but her realm too. maybe it was simply the 'family estate'

my idea may sound a little strange but i think that it adds up-i hope so anyway.

Free Runner · Aug 14, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Its possible he would of took on some of her physical traits when taking her power. Gods can take on any form so we dont know exactly what his true form was.

But its not like Abaddon kills without reason - the case of Abaddons children was that they attempted to takeover his power and failed ending with him killing them. I would think considering Balthazars run in with one of the Canthan Heroes and Grenths solution to the two brothers, that gods have tempers aswell - and your sons and daughters trying to kill you for your power would certainly make you angry.

Oh course Abaddons dead children is scrapped. I would say the chances of Anet useing the Aranchnia idea in the future are better than that of his dead children (since Abaddon is long gone until they run out of ideas)

Capua · Aug 14, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Great read!
I was thinking, bit of a long shot i know, but it could be a sort of reference to the story of Athena and Arachne.
(you can find it here

http://www.greekspider.com/greek_myth/greek_myth4.htm)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Its possible he would of took on some of her physical traits when taking her power. Gods can take on any form so we dont know exactly what his true form was.

I think it's safe to assume what we see in Gandara is fairly close to his true form

natmarie21 · Aug 14, 2008, 12:09 PM // 12:09

has anyone ever considered the artwork in the realm of torment loading screens as a clue?
at a glance, it's all spikes and metal devices that fankly look like methods of torture. the screen features 2 'pillars' both on the right hand side with the one on the left having a spider like feature-near the top there are 8 claw like legs; 4 on the left, 4 on the right, resembling that of a spider. yet another hint at the presence of arachnia. yes, it could just be to mimic torment claws etc but the nuber of the legs is that of a spider, with the positions being that of a spider if the 'pillar' was the body. sorry i couldn't get a photo, i don't know where to find one and wiki doesn't have one, but if you get the chance, just look at the artwork in the realm of torment loading screen.
also, you know how there's that spiders heart landmark, and how all around realm of torment are huge leg like things, could some of theses 'leg-like' things be arachnias, around the spiders heart, or is that just some wishful thinking of mine?

Konig Des Todes · Aug 14, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capua

Great read! I was thinking, bit of a long shot i know, but it could be a sort of reference to the story of Athena and Arachne. (you can find it here

http://www.greekspider.com/greek_myth/greek_myth4.htm) I think it's safe to assume what we see in Gandara is fairly close to his true form –snip image-

I don't really see the reference other then the whole spider deal, which is too big of a long shot to call a reference. As for the mural, that alone is rather vague and as Free Runner said, the gods can change their form, so that could just be how Abaddon decided to show himself to humans before his exile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by natmarie21

has anyone ever considered the artwork in the realm of torment loading screens as a clue? at a glance, it's all spikes and metal devices that fankly look like methods of torture. the screen features 2 'pillars' both on the right hand side with the one on the left having a spider like feature-near the top there are 8 claw like legs; 4 on the left, 4 on the right, resembling that of a spider. yet another hint at the presence of arachnia. yes, it could just be to mimic torment claws etc but the nuber of the legs is that of a spider, with the positions being that of a spider if the 'pillar' was the body. sorry i couldn't get a photo, i don't know where to find one and wiki doesn't have one, but if you get the chance, just look at the artwork in the realm of torment loading screen. also, you know how there's that spiders heart landmark, and how all around realm of torment are huge leg like things, could some of theses 'leg-like' things be arachnias, around the spiders heart, or is that just some wishful thinking of mine?

For the loading screen, I think it is more a mimic of the Domain of Fear, not so much of simply the Torment Claws. As for the landmark, I thought I mention The Spider's Heart, along with other Arachnia landmarks (Harvestman's Lair, Arachnia Plateau, and Vale of Shadows. All the Arachnia landmarks seem to be located in the Domain of Fear, of what I have noted.

Here is a map I made of the Domain of Fear's "points of interests," which has all the Arachnia landmarks (note: The "Abaddon's Dead Children" spot is just the most likeliest place in all of the Realm of Torment for that location to be of what I've noted.)

Shasgaliel · Aug 25, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

There seem to be many bug-like remnants in the realm of torment. I found this in domain of fear:

Konig Des Todes · Aug 25, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Well, as I said, the Domain of Fear seems to be highly spider-like. Most spider things are find there. As for your picture, that is a statue, which is found in Nightfallen Jahai, and at least two places in Domain of Fear *one is on a mountain where you cannot reach*.

People have speculated that it was the statue of Dhuum, I disagree, I think it is just some random statue that Anet put in *if just one was around, I would say it might be The Malignant Shrine, but I think that is just as implausible as a statue to Dhuum. So it might be just some random statue Anet thought of putting in *maybe from a trashed idea*.

natmarie21 · Aug 25, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

that statue's a whopper! spiders...domain of fear....phobia....arachnaphobia

Shasgaliel · Aug 25, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Looking at the realm of torment I would not think it is the original realm of Abbadon. I would rather vote for as was stated before that is the Arachnia kingdom which was taken over by Abbadon. Remnants of insects, insectoid objects and monuments. Torment claws for me are looking like scorpions stingers.

In the Tolkien lore there was spider called Ungoliantha which was corrupting everything she touched (she was an ancestor of Sheloba) and was manifestation of evil. Sheloba was just a big spider when Ungoliatha was quite a powerful being. When main heroes encounter Sheloba Ungoliantha is long time dead and forgothen. For me it resembles the concept Arachnia and Arachni used in GW. One being a god and another being a big dangerous spider in a dungeon. When players encounter Arachni it is just a end dungeon boss when Arachnia is old forgotten a and dead god.

Also here the whole realm of torment is "corrupted" and the corruption was spread to the mortal world. Was the Abbadon source of it or was it Arachnia and Abaddon just continued? I quoted just far fetched similarities but might be that Anet indeed used Tolkien as inspiration and then change their mind trying to be more original and in the last moment replacing Arachnia with a new god. Abbadons hair look like appendages and his head in general resembles an insect I wonder if it was Anet original concept.